Subject: TYT & yet another case of murder by Cop. 2,682 views

Deleted I have made 0 posts Right now I'm Offline I joined January 1970	TYT & yet another case of murder by Cop. Jul 14, 2016 0:08:56 GMT -6 Obadiah and That Goat like this Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2016 0:08:56 GMT -6 I'm slow so bobo seems to have ninja'd me in a lot of ways by 20 minutes, but here's my response. Jul 13, 2016 22:44:39 GMT -6 @isichar said: Obviously the term humanist was just created to take away attention from blacks as well. What bothers me about it is that these people don't realize how much the standards change when they leave their own little bubble. Come to Canada and compare the treatment of Blacks to Natives and then tell me that the same standards apply. See I don't buy this idea that the term ALM is just being used by people who want to downplay what happening to Blacks in America right now, for one I have yet to see a single one of these people who think so actually demonstrate that's the case, in fact even in situations I personally know the person didn't intend it that way it was automatically assumed. Second I see many of these same people lose their shit anytime another problem takes attention away from their cause. The terrorist attack in Paris pissed a lot of them off #fuck Paris which is insanely petty. Anyways that comic is off point for me because it acts as if someone who says that can't see the racial inequalities. Saying all lives have value is not the same as saying everyone has it equal and needs to be treated the exact same. If I say I'm a humanist it's because I want a world in which regardless of: race, gender, sexuality, culture, religion that a person should be able to live their lives and be happy. It's more an ideal to work towards then a statement of how the current standards are. See the thing is there's nothing intrinsically racist about saying "I think all lives should matter" but I'm told I have to see it that way because of the racial tensions in a country I don't even live. But here's the thing. If you go off on somebody for using that hashtag based on an assumption of what they believe and why they used it then there's a pretty good chance you won't be convincing anyone of anything. I once heard someone say that if you're an atheist and you're talking to a religious person it's pointless to argue against them based on what your perception of their religion and beliefs are, because if you're arguing against beliefs that person doesn't even have then how can you ever convince them of anything? I agree with this sentiment very much. It'd be like me arguing to a Muslim how Christianity is wrong, or me arguing to a Southern Baptist that Christianity is wrong. They can easily dismiss everything I'd argue against them as not even being what they actually believed. The people I see attacking ALM don't seem to actually take the time to understand why individuals feel the way they do, at least not based on my experience. It's all just super generalized and then we're shamed into accepting their views on it. You get people that say: Well if you say ALM then you're either ignorant and need to be educated or you're just racist. I don't buy into it at all. Nor do I respond well to people trying to shame me or forcing me to agree with their views. I grew up a Christian, I'm use to being told I'm naturally a shit person who needs to constantly be seeking to repent simply for the act of being born. I'm all for the idea of seeking to improve myself, improve my world views and to be a better person in general, but I'm not going to apologize for being born a certain way, nor do I feel others should so when people should. Maybe I'd feel different if I was in the USA right now. Maybe if I was there I'd be able to see that people who are using the term really are these racist assholes, but I haven't seen that in my experience, and I haven't seen anyone who claims these things actually show that the majority of people who do use it are actually like this. What I do know is there are people willing to threaten others and treat them like garbage for no other reason then they used this hashtag and I have an issue with that. I have an issue seeing someone who faces just as many racial issues where they live, is part of a minority and genuinely believes in what they were saying being told she should kill herself for using it. Want to talk statistics? In just a few decades we've had around 1500 native woman vanish or be killed without any real investigation. The person who I mentioned in the example previously had her sister disappear when she was 15 and they haven't heard from her since, don't know if she's alive or dead, and it was never properly investigated, but then you have groups of people attacking her because of the terrible standards for them in a country she doesn't live in and I ask myself: Is this really what BLM is about? I'd like to think not. I'd like to think that the core of the movement isn't about this mob mentality that just want's to cause as much destruction as it can and that these people or just the vocal minority. I gave Puddi a lot of shit for nuance and I'd like to think that maybe what I'm saying now will give you a better idea of why I feel it's important, particularly when you're discussing these topics to people around the world. Because at the end of the day it's ridiculous to think that the rest of the world is going be living by the same standards. And if we are going to take the time to understand why someone saying ALM bothers them, they have to take the time to understand where we're coming from because a discussion is a two way street that way. Anyways sorry because this is a long post but it's something that was on my mind that I've touched upon but wanted to try and articulate on a bit more. Whether or not you agree or disagree with me I'll thank anyone who actually took the time to read this through. The problem with that is that yes, you would feel differently in the USA, but it's not just a difference of perspective. BLM has its genesis in the USA and, aside from some offshoots in the UK and probably Canada that don't make much sense in that context, it is very much an America-specific movement. Its response is similarly America-specific. BLM and ALM have particular connotations that if you don't follow American politics and just glom onto it based on the dictionary definition of the three words used, you're likely to be using it incorrectly. The problem with All Lives Matter as a response to Black Lives Matter is that its whole purpose is to try to shut down the discussion of the severe racial inequities in our society, because people have this misguided vision of an ideal society that is racially blind. Because that's how they want it to be, and they're only responsible for themselves, they're free to pretend that's how it already is because a black person would be stupid to blame them or agitate for them to help rectify the inequities when they're not part of the problem. Racial blindness is something that sounds nice on paper- well, you suggested yourself that you support the idea, and I'm not against it either, on paper- but it's a world that will never exist and its only actual use as an idea is to comfort those who would rather not confront the reality that racial injustices aren't something in the past that your fathers or grandfathers did. It's happening now, and we're all as a society part of the problem, as it won't be fixed in a democracy unless we can get a majority on board with us. That's what BLM represents, and that's why as a minority they have no choice but to agitate the majority and pull them out of their comfort zone if they want any action to be taken. What All Lives Matter represents, which didn't arise out of a vacuum, but specifically as a response to BLM, is the opposite- staying in that comfort zone, pretending there's not a problem, saying black people are just whiny and it's their fault anyway. I would contend that, if you use the term but you didn't mean any of those things, as I'm sure is the case with your friend, that is simply an incorrect usage of the term. For a Native to say "All Lives Matter" would be similarly loaded as to erase her own unique experiences and hardships as a Native person, as if those 1500 women who vanished is nothing extraordinary compared to what white people in Canada have to deal with. Of course it is extraordinary, so the term really does a disservice to what that person was trying to draw attention to. That being said, when you narrow it down to the personal level and see all the garbage being thrown on an individual for a comment that people don't agree with or have a narrow perspective on, and you know that they're not just some caricature of all the worst people who use the term (like Sarah Palin) but just a normal person getting shit on, of course that's terrible and now how things should be... but... didn't you say this was a tumblr account? I mean, you're basically diving into a pool of shit by even signing up for tumblr, so having more thrown on you for any reason whatsoever shouldn't really be a surprise. But seriously, of course the internet is a terrible place and I don't condone any of that. Ideally the discussion could stay like it is on this utopian oasis of rationality that is VSN.
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Deleted I have made 0 posts Right now I'm Offline I joined January 1970	TYT & yet another case of murder by Cop. Jul 14, 2016 0:45:50 GMT -6 Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2016 0:45:50 GMT -6 The thing is, I'd take more people at their word when they say that "all lives matter," if not for how it seems that at least in American street demonstrations, people only say "all lives matter" in the context of contradicting "black lives matter." You have to look past the literal meaning of the phrases, and look at the movements that they represent. What I don't understand is why a person's belief that "all lives matter" should make them want to counter-protest against people demonstrating against a problem that disproportionately threatens black lives. Sure, but when you come online you're not arguing against people in the streets. You don't always know where the person you're talking to is from or why they used it. You say we need to look past it but why, as a non American should I be expected to conform to your standards of how it is without any consideration to my context being taken into account? If I give someone the peace symbol, and it turns out in their country that's the sign for "fuck you" am I at fault for not understanding that difference? Sure, for future reference I can try to accommodate how they feel about it but if they come over here they have to realize that it also has a different meaning. As for people threatening each other on the internet, why does this surprise you? People will threaten you and treat you like garbage for anything. They'll threaten you and treat you like garbage for giving a video game exclusive to their favorite console a review score of 75%. They'll threaten you and treat you like garbage for saying that Anita Sarkeesian has some good ideas. They'll threaten you and treat you like garbage for insulting their favorite sports team. They'll threaten you and treat you like garbage for saying that you feed your kids genetically modified cornflakes. Unfortunately, hyperbolic outrage and anonymous death threats are the norm. Never said it surprised me. But it's still wrong. I've talked extensively to Geth in regards to Anita and the hate she gets. We disagree on a great deal of points but I can still say despite how I feel about her I still don't feel she should be threatened. And look at just how much hatred people who dislike Anita got from that alone. You don't need to lecture me on how these things work on the internet Bobo, I've been using to for the vast majority of my life and I know full well that people will threaten others over nothing all the time. As for your friend, I truly am sorry for her situation. It sounds like some overzealous fuckwits pounced on her when she made an honest mistake, and said some cruel and ignorant things. But really, lets not pretend that it wasn't a mistake. The problems that native women face in your country sounds like a real tragedy, but can't we talk about them without co-opting a phrase that was coined in another country to downplay someone else's tragedy? I understand that some people may have some good ideas and tag them with "all lives matter," but to some Americans, this is a sore spot because of the spiteful nature of "all lives matter" street demonstrations. Sure and I understand that, but do you really think a term as broad as saying "all lives matter" is something that can be coined and contextualized completely by the standards of some people in one country? See this is why I brought up the religion example, because if I go on a rant about how stupid Christianity is to a Southern Baptist they can say "Well that's not what I believe so nothing you said really matters to me" The issue is you might not necessarily be arguing against what a person believes, and arguing against your version in your head of what you think they believe is as pointless as arguing against a wall. If you're going to go around assuming that people who use incredibly vague terms like ALM are only using it for one reason then you're going to make an ass of yourself if what you're arguing against isn't what they were saying. I can understand it's a sore spot, I can understand why. But trying to shame others into accepting your views on what the term means is going to alienate more people then it's going to force to stop doing so. Using the phrase "all lives matter" for purposes other than contradicting "black lives matter" has become something akin to flying the Confederate Battle Flag for the sake of expressing southern pride, while ignoring its legacy as a symbol of the KKK. From what I understand, there's a town in Brazil somewhere, where black people and white people stand side by side and fly the confederate battle flag with pride due to some quirk of their history, and that's fine. But what's fine for Santa Bárbara d'Oeste may not necessarily be fine for everyone. Whether you're flying or a flag or posting a twitter hashtag, context means everything, and as the internet brings people from different cultures together, learning how people from other cultures may react to the symbols that you take for granted can be critical to maintaining civil discourse. Some phrases have cultural significance beyond their literal meaning, and you can no more separate the phrase "all live matter" from its association with racists than you can separate the phrase "use the force" from Star Wars. I agree context means everything. And yes there can always be an effort for even people in other countries to sympathize with those differences that exist. The issue is when people try and actively force you into doing so, and when the mob attacks those as being "racist" without any thought to what that persons context is. I'm sorry because I'm not saying this to talk down on the people living in the USA but I have noticed in discussions online that people from the US seem to be the only ones who seem to assume the rest of the world HAS to see things their way, and if we don't it's our job to change to accommodate you. Of course not all Americans are like this, but I rarely talk to anyone from other countries that seems to have that same mentality. When you go online to these social sites you know you're not just talking to fellow Americans, you know that the standards are different all over the place. If you see someone say ALM, you can have a discussion with them, see what they believe and explain what that term means to you and why it can be viewed as an issue. I got no problem with that, but that's almost never how it goes. I don't care about the specific string of words "all lives matter" I can agree with the literal interpretation of what it means but I don't care if I have to use separate term to describe how I feel. But when I feel like I'm being bullied into a certain mindset my mentality is to push back, not to conform. If someone were to tell me tomorrow that I couldn't call myself a humanist because of the negative connotations it has to them, do you really think I'm just going to immediately bend over backwards for that? You can't just say that things like "internet brings people from different cultures together, learning how people from other cultures may react to the symbols that you take for granted can be critical to maintaining civil discourse." and expect that to matter to others unless you first show that you're willing to take the time to understand their views as well. Right now we're having a discussion on the topic and things like that is a great start, but for every actual discussion held, there's a ton more people that just have a mob mentality who try to swarm others. Yes, again I'm aware this is typical internet behavior and I've seen it happen to people I dislike as well, and even if we can't directly change that it's still a good common point to say "this is wrong" When you post things like that comic, you're not convincing anyone that they shouldn't use that term. You're just talking down on them, belittling them, and ignoring any context they used that statement in and then blaming them for not sharing the same views regardless of their reasoning. I keep saying this over and over again, you're hurting your own cause with things like that. You're alienating people who would otherwise gladly support your cause and trying to bully them into your way of thinking. It doesn't work. It makes you look bad, it makes them less likely to sympathize with what you're saying, it makes the disconnect even larger.
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Deleted I have made 0 posts Right now I'm Offline I joined January 1970	TYT & yet another case of murder by Cop. Jul 14, 2016 1:19:00 GMT -6 Obadiah likes this Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2016 1:19:00 GMT -6 It is not simply some vague term that can be used to mean whatever you want. It is a slogan born in America for a specific purpose. It represents an American movement which arose in opposition to another American movement. You can complain about US-centrism when it comes to other issues, but it is justified here.
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Deleted I have made 0 posts Right now I'm Offline I joined January 1970	TYT & yet another case of murder by Cop. Jul 14, 2016 1:24:47 GMT -6 Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2016 1:24:47 GMT -6 Jul 14, 2016 0:08:56 GMT -6 @puddi said: The problem with that is that yes, you would feel differently in the USA, but it's not just a difference of perspective. BLM has its genesis in the USA and, aside from some offshoots in the UK and probably Canada that don't make much sense in that context, it is very much an America-specific movement. Its response is similarly America-specific. BLM and ALM have particular connotations that if you don't follow American politics and just glom onto it based on the dictionary definition of the three words used, you're likely to be using it incorrectly. The problem with All Lives Matter as a response to Black Lives Matter is that its whole purpose is to try to shut down the discussion of the severe racial inequities in our society, because people have this misguided vision of an ideal society that is racially blind. Because that's how they want it to be, and they're only responsible for themselves, they're free to pretend that's how it already is because a black person would be stupid to blame them or agitate for them to help rectify the inequities when they're not part of the problem. Racial blindness is something that sounds nice on paper- well, you suggested yourself that you support the idea, and I'm not against it either, on paper- but it's a world that will never exist and its only actual use as an idea is to comfort those who would rather not confront the reality that racial injustices aren't something in the past that your fathers or grandfathers did. It's happening now, and we're all as a society part of the problem, as it won't be fixed in a democracy unless we can get a majority on board with us. That's what BLM represents, and that's why as a minority they have no choice but to agitate the majority and pull them out of their comfort zone if they want any action to be taken. What All Lives Matter represents, which didn't arise out of a vacuum, but specifically as a response to BLM, is the opposite- staying in that comfort zone, pretending there's not a problem, saying black people are just whiny and it's their fault anyway. I would contend that, if you use the term but you didn't mean any of those things, as I'm sure is the case with your friend, that is simply an incorrect usage of the term. For a Native to say "All Lives Matter" would be similarly loaded as to erase her own unique experiences and hardships as a Native person, as if those 1500 women who vanished is nothing extraordinary compared to what white people in Canada have to deal with. Of course it is extraordinary, so the term really does a disservice to what that person was trying to draw attention to. That being said, when you narrow it down to the personal level and see all the garbage being thrown on an individual for a comment that people don't agree with or have a narrow perspective on, and you know that they're not just some caricature of all the worst people who use the term (like Sarah Palin) but just a normal person getting shit on, of course that's terrible and now how things should be... but... didn't you say this was a tumblr account? I mean, you're basically diving into a pool of shit by even signing up for tumblr, so having more thrown on you for any reason whatsoever shouldn't really be a surprise. But seriously, of course the internet is a terrible place and I don't condone any of that. Ideally the discussion could stay like it is on this utopian oasis of rationality that is VSN. Even if the term was coined and made popular from that do you really think there aren't people who have used it long before this? This isn't a super specific term, it's a very broad one that I have no doubt has been uttered by others long before this whole situation occurred. I mean is it really hard to believe "All lives matter" is this term that was never used before it became popular as a hashtag. When you say The problem with All Lives Matter as a response to Black Lives Matter is that its whole purpose is to try to shut down the discussion of the severe racial inequities in our society What is this based on? Can you actively prove this to me. Because I hear you say this, I hear others BLM people say this. Prove to me that the entire purpose behind the creation of the term is based on trying to silence BLM. Prove it to me because I've already stated I'm not entirely buying it. Who started it, what was their world views, how do you know that they created it for this sole purpose? Don't just throw declarative statements at me and expect me to accept them, especially when I've already told you I don't buy it. Sure, it probably seems obvious to you, but explain it to me. Show me the proof and I just might reconsider. I don't find it hard to believe what you're saying is the case, nor do I find it unreasonable to think it might have been originally used with perfectly good intentions. You've made a claim, show me the proof to back up your claim. BLM and ALM have particular connotations that if you don't follow American politics and just glom onto it based on the dictionary definition of the three words used, you're likely to be using it incorrectly. Who gets to determine the correct usage of these words? Is everyone else in the world expected to have to follow those standards? Is it only our job to understand how you guys use it or should you have some obligation to also understand the context in which others may use those terms? For a Native to say "All Lives Matter" would be similarly loaded as to erase her own unique experiences and hardships as a Native person, as if those 1500 women who vanished is nothing extraordinary compared to what white people in Canada have to deal with. Sure, if you completely ignored everything else she said in her post (not talking about you specifically) and just want to focus on one hashtag then I guess you could view it that way. For someone in your position to be telling her that she's making light of her own peoples problems which she's personally suffered from and I suspect that you've probably never had to research before seems like an awfully strange thing to do though. You talk about making light of all these woman that have vanished well also telling a person who has directly suffered as a result and lives under the impression that the way they went about it is wrong? Who are you to say that on an issue you don't know much about, to a native woman who lives with this reality? You can't just ignore her context and then similarly telling her "this is what you're really saying" based solely on your standards. Well you can if you want but I wouldn't personally recommend doing that. Basically this would be like a cis white male lecturing transgenders on transgender issues. Something which ironically I've seen. These groups say they want to give these people a voice, well they similarly tell the people who's rights they claim they're defending that their voices don't matter the moment they disagree. Do you not see the hypocrisy in your own statement here? didn't you say this was a tumblr account? Yes, yes. Are you saying this doesn't happen on youtube, facebook, twitter and various other media sites as well though? We all know this is especially a problem on tumblr, it's not only isolated to it though. One final point. I know I've been jumping back and forth through your post here It's happening now, and we're all as a society part of the problem, as it won't be fixed in a democracy unless we can get a majority on board with us. I agree. Which is why I wish there would be less "accept what we say or you're wrong" and more discussion on it. Less mob mentality, less shaming mentality, less "accept how we define this or your racist" mentality because those sort of things don't garner support for your cause. When I look at Bobo's comic, I can understand why it's a silly thing for you to laugh at because that's how absurd what people are saying to you, and that this is really a rather simple concept. But talking down like that to people and generalizing them like that is not gaining the support you want. Those people aren't going to look at that comic and go "gee, what I believe is stupid" they're going to look at it and go "Gee, that comic is stupid and doesn't cover what I believe at all" I don't care about hashtags. I don't care about these hot topic buzzwords one way or another. Beliefs are more complex then being able to encompass the entirety of how a person feels from one term. Get rid of it, keep it, I don't think it matters as much as you believe it does. It's just a string of words, regardless of how it's viewed culturally or not. Spend less time fighting against that and more time fighting against the mentality behind the people using it for the wrong reasons. Cause even if you were to convince me that this is beyond a doubt a racist comment, that still doesn't change my views on the actual issues going on, all it changes is my perception of 3 words used together and realistically do you actually feel like that's going to improve the core problems in any real way? Maybe you do. Anyways bed time for me.
Edited by Deleted [Jul 14, 2016 1:56:03 GMT -6] Reply Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top

Deleted I have made 0 posts Right now I'm Offline I joined January 1970	TYT & yet another case of murder by Cop. Jul 14, 2016 1:29:10 GMT -6 Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2016 1:29:10 GMT -6 Jul 14, 2016 1:19:00 GMT -6 @puddi said: It is not simply some vague term that can be used to mean whatever you want. It is a slogan born in America for a specific purpose. It represents an American movement which arose in opposition to another American movement. You can complain about US-centrism when it comes to other issues, but it is justified here. Yeah, it really is a pretty broad statement, and you're the one who is telling me I shouldn't take it literally because you say so and other BLM people say so. I think you're wasting your time fighting against 3 words, though that's just me. Still I am genuinely curious to see your proof that this is "A slogan born in America for a specific purpose" At the very least I'll credit you on that one if you can give me actual evidence of this.
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Deleted I have made 0 posts Right now I'm Offline I joined January 1970	TYT & yet another case of murder by Cop. Jul 14, 2016 1:36:32 GMT -6 Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2016 1:36:32 GMT -6 Yet Isi and I aren't American. Plenty of us aren't American. Some are British, Canadian, two Australians, plenty of people who speak English as a second language. America isn't in a small bubble, it's part of a global community that means everything has a knock-on effect. Also a few years ago I said I'd jump off a bridge the moment "All lives matter" was a bad thing -_- FFS humanity go kill yourself. For a Native to say "All Lives Matter" would be similarly loaded as to erase her own unique experiences and hardships as a Native person, as if those 1500 women who vanished is nothing extraordinary compared to what white people in Canada have to deal with. ... What. The. Actual. Fuck? Seriously? No it doesn't. That's like the saying the Jews saying that genocide against any other race is effectively erasing what happened to them. If your identity is based off a movement, group, ideal, belief then you have a pretty fucking weak identity and if it can be erased by encompassing everyone which "all" generally refers to unless you put something after it. Like All Llamas Lives Matter. And I know I sound harsh, mean, bullyish, etc but that's my identity, if I can speak without consequences I will call you out on your stupidity no matter who it is and this is pretty fucking stupid.
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Deleted I have made 0 posts Right now I'm Offline I joined January 1970	TYT & yet another case of murder by Cop. Jul 14, 2016 1:56:57 GMT -6 ObserverStatus, Obadiah, and 1 more like this Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2016 1:56:57 GMT -6 Jul 14, 2016 1:24:47 GMT -6 @isichar said: Even if the term was coined and made popular from that do you really think there aren't people who have used it long before this? This isn't a super specific term, it's a very broad one that I have no doubt has been uttered by others long before this whole situation occurred. I mean is it really hard to believe "All lives matter" is this term that was never used before it became popular as a hashtag. When you say The problem with All Lives Matter as a response to Black Lives Matter is that its whole purpose is to try to shut down the discussion of the severe racial inequities in our society What is this based on? Can you actively prove this to me. Because I hear you say this, I hear others BLM people say this. Prove to me that the entire purpose behind the creation of the term is based on trying to silence BLM. Prove it to me because I've already stated I'm not entirely buying it. Who started it, what was their world views, how do you know that they created it for this sole purpose? Don't just throw declarative statements at me and expect me to accept them, especially when I've only told you I don't. Sure, it probably seems obvious to you, but explain it to me. Show me the proof and I just might reconsider. I don't find it hard to believe what you're saying is the case, nor do I find it unreasonable to think it might have been originally used with perfectly good intentions. You've made a claim, show me the proof. www.google.com/trends/explore#q=all%20lives%20matter It really wasn't a thing before Black Lives Matter, nor is it a thing outside of the US. As for proof of its motivations, it's not something any one person created, but in the US it is generally the providence of the Alt Right such as the previously mentioned Sarah Palin, and used in conjunction with themes similar to what I already laid out. Saying the cops are justified even in the most egregious cases (Blue Lives Matter is a common alternative), pointing at the crime rate in black areas as an excuse, finding any excuse for the problem other than institutional racism. I don't know how I'm supposed to prove how every single person uses it, as my proof is simply my experience with the term in America which is the only place the term is relevant. I suppose you could browse the twitter hashtag yourself if you want. Sure, if you completely ignored everything else she said in her post (not talking about you specifically) and just want to focus on one hashtag then I can you could view it that way. For someone in your position to be telling her that she's making light of her own peoples problems which she's personally suffered from and I suspect that you've probably never had to research before seems like an awfully strange thing to do though. You talk about making light of all these woman that have vanished well also telling a person who has directly suffered as a result and lives under the impression that the way they went about it is wrong? Who are you to say that on an issue you don't know much about, to a native woman who lives with this reality? You can't just ignore her context and then similarly telling her "this is what you're really saying" based solely on your standards. Well you can if you want but I wouldn't personally recommend doing that. I said nothing about making light of it. I said she used the wrong term, which does a disservice to what her point otherwise was. And unfortunately allows certain people to completely ignore everything else she said in favor of attacking said incorrectly-used term. And no, that's not victim blaming or whatever because they're still wrong to do that, but simply to point out the importance of using the terminology that actually means what you mean it to. What is sounds like she is saying is something closer to "Native Lives Matter." I agree. Which is why I wish there would be less "accept what we say or you're wrong" and more discussion on it. Less mob mentality, less shaming mentality, less "accept how we define this or your racist" mentality because those sort of things don't garner support for your cause. When I look at Bobo's comic, I can understand why it's a silly thing for you to laugh at because that's how absurd what people are saying to you, and that this is really a rather simple concept. But talking down like that to people and generalizing them like that is not gaining the support you want. Those people aren't going to look at that comic and go "gee, what I believe is stupid" they're going to look at it and go "Gee, that comic is stupid and doesn't cover what I believe at all" I don't care about hashtags. I don't care about these hot topic buzzwords one way or another. Beliefs are more complex then being able to encompass the entirety of how a person feels from one term. Get rid of it, keep it, I don't think it matters as much as you believe it does. It's just a string of words, regardless of how it's viewed culturally or not. Spend less time fighting against that and more time fighting against the mentality behind the people using it for the wrong reasons. Cause even if you were to convince me that this is beyond a doubt a racist comment, that still doesn't change my views on the actual issues going on, all it changes is my perception of 3 words used together and realistically do you actually feel like that's going to improve the core problems in any real way? Maybe you do. Anyways bed time for me. Frankly, we're not exactly asking for Canadians' or Australians' support in fixing an American problem. Just that you understand the meaning of the slogan you're using.
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Deleted I have made 0 posts Right now I'm Offline I joined January 1970	TYT & yet another case of murder by Cop. Jul 14, 2016 2:28:52 GMT -6 Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2016 2:28:52 GMT -6 Ah hell I got one more in me www.google.com/trends/explore#q=all%20lives%20matter It really wasn't a thing before Black Lives Matter, nor is it a thing outside of the US. So when I asked you to prove to me that this term, was without a doubt racist and had no positive intentions behind the core of it whatsoever your proof is how much it was googled before that....? Seriously Puddi... Ok well there's one point I'm going to completely disregard As for proof of its motivations, it's not something any one person created, but in the US it is generally the providence of the Alt Right such as the previously mentioned Sarah Palin, and used in conjunction with themes similar to what I already laid out. Saying the cops are justified even in the most egregious cases (Blue Lives Matter is a common alternative), pointing at the crime rate in black areas as an excuse, finding any excuse for the problem other than institutional racism. I don't know how I'm supposed to prove how every single person uses it, as my proof is simply my experience with the term in America which is the only place the term is relevant. I suppose you could browse the twitter hashtag yourself if you want. Why prove anything when you can just strawman the shit out of people who disagree with it, even when it's black Americans, cause yes, I have seen black Americans speak out against the anti ALM crowd. Obviously you know better then them. Basically it's the same thing. You can't prove this is without a doubt created for the purpose of racism, though you clearly have 0 issues making declarative statements that is without a doubt. The fact that I've known people who have said those words many years before BLM to me shows how ridiculous what you're saying is. So sorry, another point you just make I'm completely disregarding I said nothing about making light of it. I said she used the wrong term, which does a disservice to what her point otherwise was. And unfortunately allows certain people to completely ignore everything else she said in favor of attacking said incorrectly-used term. And no, that's not victim blaming or whatever because they're still wrong to do that, but simply to point out the importance of using the terminology that actually means what you mean it to. What is sounds like she is saying is something closer to "Native Lives Matter." "My Pov is right. Yours is wrong. Cater to my PoV" Considering how much of a joke you're portraying your cause, which is sadly a good one, I wouldn't be criticizing her over her doing a disservice to her cause. This is what I keep saying, this is why so many other countries can't take Americans seriously, because you DEMAND we cater to your views on these things. You start telling people in other countries what they can say, what they can't say. Frankly, we're not exactly asking for Canadians' or Australians' support in fixing an American problem. Just that you understand the meaning of the slogan you're using. I understand perfectly fine and I'll use the slogan as much as I want how I want. And if people want to tell me I can't or want to go off on "this is what you're actually saying" then this is my response to them: SPOILER: Click to show
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Deleted I have made 0 posts Right now I'm Offline I joined January 1970	TYT & yet another case of murder by Cop. Jul 14, 2016 2:45:17 GMT -6 Obadiah likes this Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2016 2:45:17 GMT -6 The trends link was a response to your belief that it was a thing before BLM, which it wasn't. Maybe you knew people who said "those words" but not as the slogan it is now. What may have been a nebulous string of three words governed only by their dictionary definitions is no longer remotely that. The context for using the words now is different. It's not really a strawman, just a generalization. Those are exactly the things many ALM supporters believe, proudly so. They don't need me to strawman them. Yeah, I think your POV is basically wrong on this issue. Sorry if that makes my argument sound like a joke to you, but that's why I'm not really giving any ground here. If it were an issue that weren't fundamentally rooted in the US then I might think differently.
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Vroom Vroom Banned for Spam I have made 2,419 posts Right now I'm Offline I joined August 2015 I've received 1,845 likes BSN Posts 4,000	TYT & yet another case of murder by Cop. Jul 14, 2016 2:46:03 GMT -6 Post by Vroom Vroom on Jul 14, 2016 2:46:03 GMT -6 Ignoring the terms and what they may mean or be perceived to mean, because I don't actually care about parsing words; I only care about what is being campaigned for and how it will effect everyone in the long run. I am in full support of Campaign Zero, I am not, however, in support of protests that: block bridges, potentially hinder emergency services, and/or hurt the economy (work delays). I've seen it said that people won't care otherwise, well, do you think that pissing those people off by inconveniencing them is going to help, or do you think it's going to make them entirely unsympathetic to the cause? Two wrongs don't make a right, but two rights make a left There are other methods, such as passing out pamphlets, petitioning the government, going door to door and raising awareness, etc. One thing that I've noticed (unless I'm reading the chart wrong, 3 AM here) is that most cases of murder in the US were done by members of the same race (against each races own race): www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_6_murder_race_and_sex_of_vicitm_by_race_and_sex_of_offender_2013.xls I'd like to further point out that more of my white-colored brethren are killed by police each year as opposed to my darker-skinned brethren. This site posits that whites are 1.3 times more likely than blacks to die at the hands of police: www.thefederalistpapers.org/us/study-more-whites-killed-by-police-than-blacks Granted, that isn't the issue here, the issue is wrongful police deaths/brutality, but these statistics make me somewhat hopeful as they give me the message that racially motivated cases of brutality aren't as numerous in the United States as the media would lead us or like us to believe. I feel that while reform is being pushed for, reform for the media is also a must as they like to stir shit at every opportunity they get to boost their ratings; they'd love a race war and I think that's their end goal because fear equals more views and ratings, what breeds more fear than distrusting and having disdain for one's neighbors? Nothing. I've not seen them show anything about police brutality against Muslims, Hispanics or Whites, but it surely happens, though I guess those are the groups that it is "okay" to hate or not make an issue out of. At its core, racism shall always exist because there shall always be people who want to feel threatened by those that they perceive to be different and skin color is the easiest thing for one to recognize as different in a visual sense, however, we're reaching the point to where those racists are being shamed (or hopefully educated) and phased out into becoming a minority, so massive strides have been made and will continue to be made. In a nutshell, I'm trying to say that there will always be those that are spoiling for a fight, but humanity as a whole is slowly moving forward in a more positive direction, it just takes time and you have to take the good with the bad. Hopefully I didn't ruffle too many feathers, but this is the way I've been seeing things from where I sit (as an American) and I'd just prefer to be honest about it all as opposed to trying to hide the elephants and come across as politically correct.
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Deleted I have made 0 posts Right now I'm Offline I joined January 1970	TYT & yet another case of murder by Cop. Jul 14, 2016 3:15:03 GMT -6 via mobile Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2016 3:15:03 GMT -6 Jul 14, 2016 2:45:17 GMT -6 @puddi said: The trends link was a response to your belief that it was a thing before BLM, which it wasn't. Maybe you knew people who said "those words" but not as the slogan it is now. What may have been a nebulous string of three words governed only by their dictionary definitions is no longer remotely that. The context for using the words now is different. It's not really a strawman, just a generalization. Those are exactly the things many ALM supporters believe, proudly so. They don't need me to strawman them. Yeah, I think your POV is basically wrong on this issue. Sorry if that makes my argument sound like a joke to you, but that's why I'm not really giving any ground here. If it were an issue that weren't fundamentally rooted in the US then I might think differently. I didn't ask for proof it was a trend beforehand. I asked for proof that it at its core was created for racists purposes. You made a declarative statement and then linked me a single link showing me a thing on when it was Googled and expected me to assume the rest was right. Sorry but that's not how the burden of proof works on declarative statements. Many Muslims believe the line about smiting people who don't believe in Allah above the neck is literal. Do you attack all Muslims and tell them they can't believe in the Quran or talk about it online? The problem with your arguments isn't that you disagree. It's that you say you need the majority on your side, and yet all you can do is tell others what they should believe and what they can or can't say and you have absolutely no willingness whatsoever to find a middle ground on something like 3 words. And you do this online where you know you're talking to people from various countries and then you tell even these people how we should think and what we can say when you blatantly admit you're not willing to even consider my pov or give any ground. So when you come to me with this "I'm right and your wrong" attitude how can you seriously expect me or anyone to agree? Oh that's right you don't really care because I'm just wrong, completely wrong on this with no possibility of even remotely being somewhat right. Ok. Well then Go ye forth unto the world Puddi and be a champion of justice!
Edited by Deleted [Jul 14, 2016 3:18:05 GMT -6] Reply Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top

Deleted I have made 0 posts Right now I'm Offline I joined January 1970	TYT & yet another case of murder by Cop. Jul 14, 2016 3:18:03 GMT -6 Obadiah likes this Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2016 3:18:03 GMT -6 Jul 14, 2016 2:46:03 GMT -6 Vroom Vroom said: Ignoring the terms and what they may mean or be perceived to mean, because I don't actually care about parsing words; I only care about what is being campaigned for and how it will effect everyone in the long run. I am in full support of Campaign Zero, I am not, however, in support of protests that: block bridges, potentially hinder emergency services, and/or hurt the economy (work delays). I've seen it said that people won't care otherwise, well, do you think that pissing those people off by inconveniencing them is going to help, or do you think it's going to make them entirely unsympathetic to the cause? Two wrongs don't make a right, but two rights make a left There are other methods, such as passing out pamphlets, petitioning the government, going door to door and raising awareness, etc. This is fair, though I think that is the point of civil disobedience. Yeah it pisses people off, but it also puts a huge spotlight on your issue and if it is overall just and you bear that out with your actions (hence the importance of civil disobedience being nonviolent, yet still agitating) then it will bring people on board as well. One thing that I've noticed (unless I'm reading the chart wrong, 3 AM here) is that most cases of murder in the US were done by members of the same race (against each races own race): www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_6_murder_race_and_sex_of_vicitm_by_race_and_sex_of_offender_2013.xls I'd like to further point out that more of my white-colored brethren are killed by police each year as opposed to my darker-skinned brethren. This site posits that whites are 1.3 times more likely than blacks to die at the hands of police: www.thefederalistpapers.org/us/study-more-whites-killed-by-police-than-blacks That second one is most likely right wing spin tho, considering the source and the content. It admits that blacks are 3.5 times more likely to be killed by cops than whites relative to their populations, but then makes up some BS "adjustments" to twist it to make whites actually more likely to die. Granted I am open to seeing how those adjustments are calculated to revise my assessment of them being BS, but color me very skeptical. But I do think it's a valid point that black people commit a disproportionate amount of violent crime and thus cops do have reason to be more wary, even if that is racist. That is why I think the solution can't realistically only be the police reforms that Campaign Zero advocates, but major economic reforms and criminal justice reforms, like ending the drug war and mass incarceration and private prisons, bringing back manufacturing jobs, etc. There are many ways in which society is structured which disproportionately affect the black community, it's not just policing. Granted, that isn't the issue here, the issue is wrongful police deaths/brutality, but these statistics make me somewhat hopeful as they give me the message that racially motivated cases of brutality aren't as numerous in the United States as the media would lead us or like us to believe. I feel that while reform is being pushed for, reform for the media is also a must as they like to stir shit at every opportunity they get to boost their ratings; they'd love a race war and I think that's their end goal because fear equals more views and ratings, what breeds more fear than distrusting and having disdain for one's neighbors? Nothing. I've not seen them show anything about police brutality against Muslims, Hispanics or Whites, but it surely happens, though I guess those are the groups that it is "okay" to hate or not make an issue out of. At its core, racism shall always exist because there shall always be people who want to feel threatened by those that they perceive to be different and skin color is the easiest thing for one to recognize as different in a visual sense, however, we're reaching the point to where those racists are being shamed (or hopefully educated) and phased out into becoming a minority, so massive strides have been made and will continue to be made. In a nutshell, I'm trying to say that there will always be those that are spoiling for a fight, but humanity as a whole is slowly moving forward in a more positive direction, it just takes time and you have to take the good with the bad. Hopefully I didn't ruffle too many feathers, but this is the way I've been seeing things from where I sit (as an American) and I'd just prefer to be honest about it all as opposed to trying to hide the elephants and come across as politically correct. Certainly instead of the media just covering everyone's opinions about BLM and focusing on the drama and inflaming tensions, they could actually cover Campaign Zero and its main policy goals to inform the public, from the source, what BLM is about.
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Deleted I have made 0 posts Right now I'm Offline I joined January 1970	TYT & yet another case of murder by Cop. Jul 14, 2016 3:29:56 GMT -6 Obadiah likes this Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2016 3:29:56 GMT -6 Honestly, don't say you're leaving unless you're actually leaving. But of course that's never how it works on the internet, is it? Jul 14, 2016 3:15:03 GMT -6 @isichar said: I didn't ask for proof it was a trend beforehand. I asked for proof that it at its core was created for racists purposes. You made a declarative statement and then linked me a single link showing me a thing on when it was Googled and expected me to assume the rest was right. Sorry but that's not how the burden of proof works on declarative statements. Gosh this misunderstanding is almost as stupid as your "free speech" one. You didn't ask for proof that it was a trend, you made a statement that you were very skeptical that ALM didn't exist before BLM. I was refuting that. If I split up your quote and put the trend link before you asked for proof of racism, my point would have been the same. I only put it after because I felt the whole quote kind of fell into the same theme. Many Muslims believe the line about smiting people who don't believe in Allah above the neck is literal. Do you attack all Muslims and tell them they can't believe in the Quran or talk about it online? The problem with your arguments isn't that you disagree. It's that you say you need the majority on your side, and yet all you can do is tell others what they should believe and what they can or can't say and you have absolutely no willingness whatsoever to find a middle ground on something like 3 words. And you do this online where you know you're talking to people from various countries and then you tell even these people how we should think and what we can say when you blatantly admit you're not willing to even consider my pov or give any ground. So when you come to me with this "I'm right and your wrong" attitude how can you seriously expect me or anyone to agree? Oh that's right you don't really care because I'm just wrong, completely wrong on this with no possibility of even remotely being somewhat right. Ok. Well then Go ye forth unto the world Puddi and be a champion of justice! I think Muslims who aren't jihadists are cherrypicking just as much as the Muslims who are, same with any religion. Not sure what your point is though, and I'm tired of arguing about it tbh. If I were trying to convince you guys to join then I'd ignore the use of "all lives matter" and ask you to come to common ground with the understanding that "black lives matter TOO" and we live in a society that doesn't value this fact enough. But I'm not trying to be convincing, I'm just trying to be right. Also, I think you guys already agree with that premise, so there is nothing fundamentally to convince you about other than semantics.
Edited by Deleted [Jul 14, 2016 3:31:52 GMT -6] Reply Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top

Deleted I have made 0 posts Right now I'm Offline I joined January 1970	TYT & yet another case of murder by Cop. Jul 14, 2016 4:13:13 GMT -6 via mobile Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2016 4:13:13 GMT -6 Jul 14, 2016 3:29:56 GMT -6 @puddi said: Honestly, don't say you're leaving unless you're actually leaving. But of course that's never how it works on the internet, is it? Jul 14, 2016 3:15:03 GMT -6 @isichar said: I didn't ask for proof it was a trend beforehand. I asked for proof that it at its core was created for racists purposes. You made a declarative statement and then linked me a single link showing me a thing on when it was Googled and expected me to assume the rest was right. Sorry but that's not how the burden of proof works on declarative statements. Gosh this misunderstanding is almost as stupid as your "free speech" one. You didn't ask for proof that it was a trend, you made a statement that you were very skeptical that ALM didn't exist before BLM. I was refuting that. If I split up your quote and put the trend link before you asked for proof of racism, my point would have been the same. I only put it after because I felt the whole quote kind of fell into the same theme. Many Muslims believe the line about smiting people who don't believe in Allah above the neck is literal. Do you attack all Muslims and tell them they can't believe in the Quran or talk about it online? The problem with your arguments isn't that you disagree. It's that you say you need the majority on your side, and yet all you can do is tell others what they should believe and what they can or can't say and you have absolutely no willingness whatsoever to find a middle ground on something like 3 words. And you do this online where you know you're talking to people from various countries and then you tell even these people how we should think and what we can say when you blatantly admit you're not willing to even consider my pov or give any ground. So when you come to me with this "I'm right and your wrong" attitude how can you seriously expect me or anyone to agree? Oh that's right you don't really care because I'm just wrong, completely wrong on this with no possibility of even remotely being somewhat right. Ok. Well then Go ye forth unto the world Puddi and be a champion of justice! I think Muslims who aren't jihadists are cherrypicking just as much as the Muslims who are, same with any religion. Not sure what your point is though, and I'm tired of arguing about it tbh. If I were trying to convince you guys to join then I'd ignore the use of "all lives matter" and ask you to come to common ground with the understanding that "black lives matter TOO" and we live in a society that doesn't value this fact enough. But I'm not trying to be convincing, I'm just trying to be right. Also, I think you guys already agree with that premise, so there is nothing fundamentally to convince you about other than semantics. Yeah, insomnia is a bitch like that. Yay for coffee. So you admit I didn't ask you for proof when it became a trend and yet you wasted both our time with that link. It's all the same to you right? Doesn't really matter what I asked I guess. My point with the Quran is you can actively show that it tells people to some of these things which ISIS is doing. Why are Muslims allowed to talk about this book in public without harassment, alowed to cherry pick, but if I say I think I should be able to say something as absurd as "all lives matter" that I should be treated like I'm just a racist regardless of what I actually believe? To be clear I'm not asking this because I think Muslims shouldn't be able to practice their religion openly, I simply want to know the logic behind how you're thinking. You're just trying to be right? Why is there even a need to try when you already KNOW you're right? Well you are definitely right about one thing. I do think black lives matter, at least the literal interpretation of it. Double points since Puddi the hashtag police tells me it's alright to say and believe that! I'd like to ask you this though: what do you personally do to help improve the situation for blacks in America? Other then telling other people what they should think and what they can or can't say based on your opinion (which is apparently objectively the correct one)
Edited by Deleted [Jul 14, 2016 4:47:32 GMT -6] Reply Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top

Obadiah Banned for Spam Descarte's Discourse on Method, questioning reality, has an odd resonance when applied to internet. I have made 1,082 posts Right now I'm Offline I joined August 2015 I've received 647 likes My gender is Male	TYT & yet another case of murder by Cop. Jul 14, 2016 7:43:14 GMT -6 ObserverStatus, That Goat, and 1 more like this Post by Obadiah on Jul 14, 2016 7:43:14 GMT -6 I think this thread doesn't have enough misunderstanding and self-righteousness... yet.
Now my purpose. To right the wrongs of the past. To provide a voice for those too weak to speak for themselves. - Renegon Control BKAB - Ethan Stoller (V for Vendetta) \| Atlas - Coldplay (HG: Catching Fire) \| Happy - Pharrell Williams \| Requiem For Soprano - (2001) Edited by Obadiah [Jul 14, 2016 7:55:56 GMT -6] Reply Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top

Deleted I have made 0 posts Right now I'm Offline I joined January 1970	TYT & yet another case of murder by Cop. Jul 14, 2016 8:56:04 GMT -6 Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2016 8:56:04 GMT -6 I admit no such thing. FFS, it was a response to another point you made in the same quote. If this is your idea of picking apart an argument, just focusing on a slight ambiguity in my original point (though I'm pretty sure the first sentence of the second paragraph made it clear enough already) and ignoring any clarifications I make, it's pretty obtuse. So you were comparing all lives matter to a religious identity. Huh, I had no idea this hashtag meant so much to you. Believe whatever you want dude, I've said all I want to say about this and I'm not gonna indulge your little SJW accusation with a response.
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Deleted I have made 0 posts Right now I'm Offline I joined January 1970	TYT & yet another case of murder by Cop. Jul 14, 2016 9:08:01 GMT -6 Vroom Vroom likes this Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2016 9:08:01 GMT -6 I have not been too sympathetic of BLM in the past, but they are right about one thing: there needs to be better oversight over the police than what we have right now. I respect and appreciate the individuals that take up a career in law enforcement, but this can't happen. It's one thing when you shoot a guy who accosts you in an obviously hostile manner (and also actually broke the law just moments earlier), but shooting a guy who's innocent and cooperative? Any reasonable person can see that that's unacceptable, but, the fact this guy felt no hesitation to do it is, IMO, the worst part. You cannot leave all the regulation to the same group you're trying to regulate and expect accountability. Somebody has to step in and hold them to it.
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Deleted I have made 0 posts Right now I'm Offline I joined January 1970	TYT & yet another case of murder by Cop. Jul 14, 2016 9:15:26 GMT -6 Obadiah, That Goat, and 2 more like this Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2016 9:15:26 GMT -6 Also, the debate about Black Lives Matter's name meaning is really frivolous. And, stupid. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that what they're saying, essentially, is: [Black Lives Matter, Too], not: [Only Black Lives Matter]. But mostly frivolous, by distracting us from making legitimate criticism/discussion of BLM. Or, conversely, the issues BLM is trying to raise.
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ObserverStatus Banned for Spam Pathlessness, everywhere you look. Where is this all supposed to lead? I have made 3,181 posts Right now I'm Offline I joined August 2015 I've received 3,229 likes My gender is Male BSN Posts 18994	TYT & yet another case of murder by Cop. Jul 14, 2016 10:17:15 GMT -6 via mobile Post by ObserverStatus on Jul 14, 2016 10:17:15 GMT -6 I think I'm done here. We're at an impasse, and this is just getting nasty. If you want to tell me I'm a hypocrite and a bully, do it in a PM, I probably won't see it here.
Indeed, cannibalism of the dead is a cherished custom in Scotland. When a Scottish boy's coming of age is celebrated (a ceremony known as the Scot Mitzvah) he is forced to consume his own great-grandfather, bones and all, in just 24 hours, or else the local Shaman will hit him on the head with a magical stick that stops him from ever becoming an adult. Reply Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top

Vroom Vroom Banned for Spam I have made 2,419 posts Right now I'm Offline I joined August 2015 I've received 1,845 likes BSN Posts 4,000	TYT & yet another case of murder by Cop. Jul 14, 2016 11:57:31 GMT -6 Post by Vroom Vroom on Jul 14, 2016 11:57:31 GMT -6 That second one is most likely right wing spin tho, considering the source and the content. It admits that blacks are 3.5 times more likely to be killed by cops than whites relative to their populations, but then makes up some BS "adjustments" to twist it to make whites actually more likely to die. Granted I am open to seeing how those adjustments are calculated to revise my assessment of them being BS, but color me very skeptical. But I do think it's a valid point that black people commit a disproportionate amount of violent crime and thus cops do have reason to be more wary, even if that is racist. That is why I think the solution can't realistically only be the police reforms that Campaign Zero advocates, but major economic reforms and criminal justice reforms, like ending the drug war and mass incarceration and private prisons, bringing back manufacturing jobs, etc. Perhaps, perhaps not. The fact that it can be spun so easily makes me think that the numbers aren't ridiculously high like we are told though. Percentage wise based upon population it may be that more blacks die to police, but numbers wise it appears to be more whites because whites make up more of the population and have likely have more day to day dealings with the police. Suppose it's all a bit moot, since we won't know for sure if whatever I post is true or bull, haha. I do think that blacks committing more violent crime/steals more is false and a myth though, again I have nothing to back it up. I did a police ride along back when I was in college and we never ended up pulling over anyone black, only whites, but that may not be a fair sample due to how many lived in the town I was in. It's pretty much whatever to me, because there are good people and bad people in every group; when it has come to blacks I've had the fortune of meeting only good people, so that's why I'm biased in regards to that. And maybe that's the whole point, I think for a lot of things, people see what they want to. I'm rambling, sorry, back on track: that'd be great and I'd love to see a reform for the courts while at it (though that's probably what you meant by Criminal Justice reforms). One thing I'd like to touch upon is police cams and a couple of reasons why they aren't wearing them at the moment (though they totally should be). The first reason is that the government is cheap and waits until something bites them in the ass to act and this is going to be another one of such cases. Secondly, Officers sometimes act in the heat of the moment because they're afraid, getting an adrenaline rush, or any other emotion related to danger/urgency, and the fear is that sometimes they find evidence, but don't always follow procedure to the letter, well, with police cams some of that evidence might get thrown out because they misacted in obtaining it (thus the need for court reform). Not necessarily doing anything bad, but just forgot a couple of steps or accidentally mishandled it. At the end of the day, most officers are all about just wanting to survive and go home, so some of them don't act 100% within the law in certain instances so as to do that. One example of that: The officer I did a ride along with told me how he once pulled a car over in the middle of a country road for a busted taillight. He goes up to the window and sees five people in the car, one lays a colored handkerchief across his lap (gang sign/communication), well, they were probably up to no good out in the middle of nowhere and shouldn't have been out there without a taillight, but the officer didn't want to push the issue and risk getting shot, because back up probably would have been ten to fifteen minutes away and he wanted to make it home at the end of the day, so he just said "Excuse me, sir. Your taillight is busted, might want to get it checked at in town. Have a nice day, kthanxbai!" What I'm trying to get across, but may be flubbing at is that law isn't always something that is 100% followed or pursued by police and for various reasons; in this case it was "I want to live" and I can't say I blame him or can fault him for it. I feel that's one thing folks often forget about police. Sometimes the high school bullies become police, sometimes the nerds, sometimes the regular joes, all walks of life wear that uniform and varying results are achieved. There are many ways in which society is structured which disproportionately affect the black community, it's not just policing. Certainly instead of the media just covering everyone's opinions about BLM and focusing on the drama and inflaming tensions, they could actually cover Campaign Zero and its main policy goals to inform the public, from the source, what BLM is about. Of course, but the policing is the most threatening one to them (at least as far as I am aware) and should be fixed immediately. Edit: Had to cut this post a bit short earlier cause reasons. One thing I think would be a great move on BLM's part would be to fly the ALM banner; make this negative thing born out of hate into a positive thing and use it to also start pushing for Muslim and Hispanic rights. The haters can't say that "You're racist only only care about your group" and some Muslims and Hispanics might join in bolstering their numbers and making change more likely, win-win. I'd love to see a movement that brings about equality for multiple groups at once, rather than just one. Instead of getting the ball rolling, I want to see people get the boulder rolling. I don't understand Muslim religion at all, especially the appeal of the burka, but they should have the right to go to mosque without fear of vandalism, mugging, assault, etc. I get that people want to pin terrorists to a certain ethnic group, because that's how most of our wars have been fought (by country), but it isn't this simple nor is it right. Like I said earlier, can't have the good without the bad.
Current read: Shinto: The Kami Way Current video game: Divinity Original Sin 2 Current strategic engagement: Writing VN Edited by Vroom Vroom [Jul 14, 2016 12:25:35 GMT -6] Reply Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top