I think TFA sucks and prefer KOTOR 2. Though admittedly I tend to shit on it for some of the things it does different or worse not the stuff it just plain recycles.

I'm looking forward to Rogue One but after the order disney reshoot stuff (not the trump bullshit the earlier ones) I'm cautious.

"There's another plot twist where Leia's your sister in the OT. I don't recall Revan having a sister in KotOR. Also, your being the bad guy does put some things into perspective, doesn't it? Particularly in regards to Malak."

The plot twist with Revan isn't any more different than the villain being the protagonist's father all along. It's a shocking plot twist meant to mimic the same kind of awe the films did with Vader.


"To be fair, this is what you always end up doing in Star Wars eventually."
It really isn't.


"That is also kind of a Star Wars staple by now, the superweapon thing I mean. However, the superweapon in TFA is, basically, a larger Death Star. The superweapon in KotOR is a space factory that mass produces fleets and droid armies, powered by the stars and The Force. It also has a pretty intriguing backstory as it's tied to the Rakatan Empire. Also, you can keep the Star Forge if you're a bad guy. Plus, Tarkin wasn't a cackling villain."

Hardly, KOTOR 2 shares none of these traits. KOTOR 2 is a story about fighting one's own demons created by the horrors of war, a deep examination of the tired tropes of Star Wars, we can agree that Star Wars stories generally retread similar lines, which was also my point in the original post I made. It's also the reason why I still think KOTOR 2 is the best Star Wars story told yet--I wrote a blog on that here.
Tarkin was definitely a cackling villain for the 5 minutes presence he had, but I was thinking more along the lines of the Emperor. On the subject of Tarkin, KOTOR 1 even has its very own Grand Moff Tarkin in the form of Admiral Saul Karath.

It doesn't matter if the Star Forge releases a swarm of killer locusts, the role it plays and the importance it bears both in the plot and to the interest of the story's villains is exactly the same as the Skywalker films with a different pain job.

So really, let's be fair here- The story is as pedestrian and interchangeable as any story told by BioWare since Dragon Age Origins. And almost any Star Wars story.


"Are you talking about one of the Jedi Masters here? Because that's kind of what Jedi Masters do for a living."
Oh please, don't be coy with me. I assume you played the game? Jolee Bindo is an obvious retread of Master Yoda, right down to being a hermit in a swampy forest world and a crazy old coot, having gone a bit insane from staying too long in a place of solitude. He who guides the hero through motley anecdotes, that actually carries a lot of profound wisdom beneath.


"I'm not entirely sure what massive character change Leia went through other than falling for Han. Bastila did turn to the dark side though and was (maybe) redeemed by Revan."
Her falling for Han was part of her character arc into becoming the strong selfless leader she is in the later films, at first she's arrogant and bosses everyone around but she changes--Just like that one character in KOTOR 1, what was her name again? Shan something.


"Let's be fair here, that's a VERY small part of everything you do in that game. Most of the game consists of your search for the Star Maps."
You're spending the entire game preventing the evil Empire in getting their hands on the giant Mcguffin doomsday weapon. The movies don't have the convenient long playing time that games do so things are cut down rather short. The general premise of both are the same. In KOTOR 2 you're trying to stop the Sith, but your mission isn't to save the Republic as much as it is a journey of self-realization, by going through the shadows of your past and become stronger for it to protect what matters. The villains motivations concides with that somewhat, she seeks to prove that true strength doesn't come from convenient tools like the Force, it comes from the individual. By ending the Force, and showing the Jedi that there is greater strength to be found those not dictated by teaching or example but by their own nature as individuals and being true to themselves.


"I'm sorry but there's a difference between TFA and KotOR. The first is a clear remix/reboot of the OT, almost beat by beat. The second however, shares commonalities with the stories told in the Star Wars Universe at large."

The only real difference between The Original Trilogy and KOTOR 1 is the paint job that BioWare applied to the latter with convenient names like "Sith Empire" "Star Forge" etc.

And my point is that those people, who are heralding KOTOR 1 for being a unique and well told Star Wars story, despite it retreading the exact same steps as the old movies right down to all of its archetypes. They are largely also those who are shitting on the Force Awakens for doing the same, but doing it rather well (in my opinion).
It's at that point where I can't help but point out that people forget stories like KOTOR 2.

I mean I'm not saying KOTOR 1 is inherently bad (only a little) I'm only saying it isn't a special snowflake--And more or less calling out on the hypocrisy.

The Heroes Journey argument only really works, if we were talking about two completely different worlds. But we are talking about Star Wars being Star Wars. It doesn't matter how many years the stories take place between each other, because everything in the Star Wars universe is quite interchangeable.

It's not as much as the questions it raised on the Force, but also it's almost postmodern treatment of its audience. It makes the player carefully consider the value of the people that are caught up in all of Star Wars conflict, those who can't use the Force. Much like Spec Ops The Line it tricks the player into carrying the weight of the carnage that comes with war (The Mandalorian Wars, and the Sergeant wanting to be a hero) It does this through moral dilemmas, in the best Machiavellian way possible by confronting you with choices like the one in regards to the Mass Shadow Generator, or helping poor people on Nar Shaddaa. I cover all of this in that blog I linked to.
It's a reminder that Star Wars doesn't have to adhere to established tropes of which it usually always does. BioWare didn't just play it safe as much as carefully lining up every important story element next to a marathon showing of the Original Trilogy--The entire Endar Spire sequence was a point-for-point revamp of A New Hope's intro. I don't see the difference between it or what The Force Awakens did. I didn't dislike the Death Planet Laser because it was similar to the Death Star, I only disliked because it was just downright silly.

The conclusion that is meant to be drawn from this is that if a story is well-told you can forgive it for simulating another narrative. And the thing about The Force Awakens is that unlike the Original Trilogy, at this time the story isn't complete, and it could go in a very different direction. I have high hopes for veteran Breaking Bad director Rian Johnson. If people can forgive KOTOR 1 for shamelessly copy-pasting its narrative from an existing Star Wars story and disguise it as its own (only being worse), then I'm sure they can forgive TFA too.

It kinda is, just with everyone made a Jedi. You (not-3P0 and R2-D2) start out on a ship that's under attack because a girl (not-Leia) has something that Darth Malak (not-Vader) needs. A Sith even boards the ship with the troopers, so fleeing through the escape pods (not-3P0 and R2-D2 again) is the only option for survival. Later on, there is an interrogation scene where you are all being tortured for the location of the Jedi (not-Rebel) Base and you may even say it's on Alderaan (not-Dantooine). You find out that what you say doesn't matter and that it's already been blown up by a fleet of Star Destroyers (not-Death Star). Even further on, the girl gets captured by Malak (not-Vader) and you set out to rescue her (not-Leia). You end up on this space station (not-Death Star) that is the biggest threat to the Republic (not-Rebellion) and takes all of their ships to distract it, while you (not-Luke) try to take it down.

Of course, there are some new beats and twists on the story as well, but it does borrow heavily from the first film. Interesting fact, Bioware was presented with the choice of a Clone Wars Era game or a game set thousands of years before the films, they did the best choice

Edit: That moment when you realize there is another page of comments... Ah well, I'm leaving this.

Relevant:

Back from Rogue One. Decent film. Thought Force Awakens was a much stronger film, it was eerie seeing computerized recreations of some 'cameos', Mads Danish accent is still funny, Chirrut & K was best character. Gyn was okay but no Rey.

I should have expected as much from the writing of Gary Whitta.

Bit of Mara Jade Skywalker, eh? I think that would have worked for a trilogy story more.

I'm going to leave a short spoiler free impression. My fear of Darth Vader being made a fool/loser was unrealized and he was a very big threat. His few scenes were awesome and terrifying for his enemies. I'd also like to say that the rumors of the Disney reshoots to make the film lighter in tone are absolutely untrue. That said, I'd rank this as the third best Star Wars film behind The Empire Strikes Back and The Force Awakens, although many will probably consider it better than TFA. At times it felt like a Star Wars film and others it didn't (no opening crawl and text labels when transitioning between planets). The music kinda fit, it wasn't generic good vs evil (very grey at times, Rebel Alliance has assholes too), and it had a lot of humor to it. K-2SO is the greatest droid character (even better than HK-47) and stole the show with its witty lines nearly every scene it was in, one of my favorite characters now.

If I had to describe the movie in a sentence, I'd describe it as a dark war comedy. My biggest complaint was a couple of the characters' rate of personal growth/character development, it happened too quickly, but the film wasn't long enough to realistic transition into it, so it just sort of happened all at once. It's definitely worth seeing and I wasn't bored in the slightest. It's definitely the most action packed Star Wars film there is.