So what you are saying is that when people talk about Stannis, it messes up the Game of Thrones discussion. And in order to fix this "off topic bit" you figure it is better to actually discuss the "fans" and bash them, since that is more on topic?

So what if he was referred to as such? Just because he's called the finest military commander doesn't make it true, and it doesn't make him immune to making grave mistakes either. Plus I don't think he really cared by the time he got to Winterfell. He already lost everything. I think he just wanted to go out in a blaze of glory at that point.

Also, do you actually watch the show? The Boltons had more than just 200 men with swords... they had a force of several hundred men at least, all mounted, ready to charge the moment Stannis showed up. And the whole reason the Boltons faced him on the field was as a display of strength - you know, like Ramsay suggested just two episodes before.

Really? You could've fooled me given your seeming preoccupation with Stannis in the GoT thread back on BSN.

Also, are you sure he's distancing himself from the show because it's "bad" and not just because he wants more time to finish Winds like he said?

Stannis doesn't actually need to be involved in Shireen's burning. It could just be Melisandre's reaction to the Pink Letter. Regardless, it doesn't make D&D liars because Shireen is still burned, just like George told them she'd be.

It does when it goes on for long periods of time with little deviation like so many other discussions derailed by Stannis fanboys and book purists. And guess what? Right off the bat, the OP of this thread bashes the show and praises Stannis. That's not exactly a good start.

It isn't. Did I say it was? Don't get hung up on my avatar: I'm no more a Dany fanboy than you are a Stannis fanboy... right?

Renly broke from law and custom to make his claim to the throne. Stannis wasn't going to just surrender his rightful claim to the throne, that's just his personality. He was wronged and he had the law on the side, he wasn't going to back down, yet he would have faced destruction in open battle. In his view he made the only acceptable choice. Yet the decision haunted him and he does show regret for Renly's death on numerous occasions.

Renly had Robert's charisma but not his skill as a military leader. Even if through popular support and the help of Rob Stark he was able to defeat Tywin Lannister what next? Could he subdue this second Greyjoy Rebellion? What if what's beyond the wall gets past the Night's Watch? What if that crazy Targaryen shows up with dragons? Sooner or later he'd have to lead by example when the odds are not in his favor. Robert could have done that, but not him.

In the books his brother-in-law actually committed treason versus show Stannis just burning him "because infidels". He would have indeed sacrifice his nephew but only because he thought he had no other choice. It wasn't a decision he made lightly.

Stannis has many flaws for sure, but so does everybody else left remaining by this point. Who would you rather have on the Iron Throne? Tommen? Some crazy Targaryen? Balon's crazy (a good crazy though) brother? The options are pretty poor. Maybe Kevin Lannister could turn Tommen into a decent ruler, but chances are he won't get the chance in the show either.

Yes Stannis is kinda an asshole, but he's an asshole with a sense of justice and he's the asshole that Westeros deserves as king and perhaps the only asshole that can save it from undead horrors or crazy incestuous self-righteous Targaryens.

And if Stannis is killed/defeated in the upcoming battle it will certainly be a much closer fight than the lopsided affair that was Ramsay's 5000 good cavalrymen charging through the few hundred exhausted men who remained loyal to Stannis.

1. Yes it is bad writing. Since the showrunners actually said it flat out that Stannis hadn't given up. They defended the choice by saying that "Stannis never changes his mind once his mind is made up". Which is even more ridiculous since he changes his mind plenty on the show.

3. I think Melisandre has already ditched Stannis in the books too.

4. I dispise season 5. Not the entire show. But here is something constructive for you. Or some ok changes, anyway.

Remove the Dorne bit. - Add the Riverlands plot

Make a mention of Balon having croaked - you know, so he doesn't end up being the winner of the War of 5 Kings

Have the Harpies attack when the Unsullied are not around. They are the best warriors in the lands, and shouldn't be cannon fodder for un-trained fanatic nobles using daggers.

Let Barristan die saving Dany instead of a pointless death in an alley. Like taking a spear in the chest for her in the Arena battle, for example.

Let Stannis croak in a battle. Plain and simple. They don't even have to show the battle, just show his head on a spike after the battle. Instead of going full mongoloid on the ordeal like on the show.

Let Theon and Sansa jump from the walls and into the snow BEFORE showing us that the snow was all melted.

Bring back the Warlocks. They tried to murder Dany in season 3. After that they were never heard from again. Could have allied them with the Harpies, really. To make that threat more believable.

Make Brienne less of a Mary-Sue. Have Podrick save her once or twice.

Make Thorne the ringleader at the Wall, instead of a 10 year old boy.

There. Constructive.


5. Dany is indeed going nuts. "True Dragon" anyone? That is just something she and her brother came up with. As a side note: Jamie and Cersei are most likely Targaryen's as well. Which explains Joffrey's madness. A nice twist there is at Jamie hates Tyrion for killing his father, when Tywin wasn't his father at all. It was the Mad King, which he kllled himself. Fun twist.

No more talk about Stannis. I've had my fill.

The good news is that the Riverlands plot is likely coming in Season 6. A casting call went out for characters matching the descriptions of Septon Meribald and a Frey, Rory McCann has been spotted in Belfast recently where other cast and crew are, David Bradley has confirmed Walder Frey's return, and Nikolaj Coster-Waldau was spotted in Iceland where Riverlands scenes were shot in previous seasons.

Plus, you kinda have to figure Cersei will be pretty pissed when Jaime comes back with Myrcella's lifeless body, and Jaime will be pretty pissed when he finds out about Lancel (I hope they'll retain their scene from the books). She'll probably send him away again, likely to the Riverlands.

And with Euron Greyjoy finally appearing next season, there's no reason to think Balon is the winner of anything. I also suspect the Warlocks will make a reappearance of some kind in Season 6 given their connection to the Crow's Eye.

Also, I'm pretty sure Thorne was the ring leader, and Olly was just collaborating with him and the other mutineers. He'd be a useful asset for an assassination plot since he's Jon's steward. I also suspect Olly might be the fall guy for Jon's murder. They're gonna have to pin his death on someone, and Olly is the perfect scapegoat.

Perhaps that should change.

But they can totes show the Ironborn committing atrocities! To keep people interested until Ramsay's next bit of screentime!

He should have fallen to his death after a night heavy drinking during a storm...you know like what really happened.

Can't say I'd blame you honestly.

Tyrion is on my list of those likely to die in the near future .-.

It would just be a heart wrenching cheap shot the way that GRR likes it.