Pointless criminalization of narcotics?


Welp, that's it. I ain't even going to try and argue anything here. This statement is either so hilariously naive or stupid that it berefts of any objective discussion. That kind of stuff is illegal for reasons, most of which coming in the "it'll fuck you up good" variety ...

The issue I see with the drug war is not that there isn't a problem, but that it's misidentified as a criminal problem instead of a health problem, which creates bass ackward solutions that either make the problem worse and create new problems, or are comically barbaric. Principally speaking, if fucking myself up is a crime then alcohol would still be illegal (hell, alcohol also fucks up innocent bystanders with drunk driving, probably in greater quantity than hard drugs do), and practically, the mafia would still be rampant instead of an obscure remnant of its former self, just like the modern drug war allows the cartels to thrive. I guess the sort of extra-legal vigilantism advocated by Duterte (which seems to have numbered in the 100s since he took office months ago) might be effective, but I would call that the exception that proves the rule about the failed drug war, that it only works if you throw rule of law and due process out the window. Taking dictatorial power to address a problem isn't what I would call a profile in political courage, but the opposite, taking the easy way out instead of fixing the system legally to achieve actual justice. Though depending on how bad the issue of drug crime really is in the Philippines, it could be an issue of how long people should be asked to wait and be preyed upon while the system is fixed the slower, more legal way, if political deadlock and corruption allows it to be fixed at all. I guess this is another reason strongmen have democratic appeal.

Of course in America the drug war is also racist/classist, since all of our recent presidents have admitted to doing illegal drugs but they're not cycled through the criminal justice system like poor people and especially poor black and hispanic people, who do drugs at similar rates to white people but are prosecuted at a higher rate.

Considering how full American jails are, throwing people in it for non-violent crimes like smoking bud seems pretty nonsensical and inefficient even if you are anti-weed. Plus almost all the propaganda used in the legalization of it was hilariously false.

Again, we're not talking about weed.

We're talking about hard opiates. Heroine, cocaine and that sort of shit. There isn't a lot of legal business to be had in the first place and there SHOULDN'T be, full stop.

Don't mistake the law enforcements troubles with dealing with that crap as evidence that it should be legal under the naive pretense that a regulated circulation would be in any way better. You said it yourself, users cut off from their substance will find ways to get high again. That right there is all the arguments you need to tell you that regulating a legalized drug market for that stuff is nonsensical. Nevermind the fact that most of the kind of drugs we're talking about have exactly ZERO actual benefit that would warrant a legalization, or do you seriously believe there should be a way to get a prescribed heroine shot at your local apothecary?

Legalizing specific trades to keep them regulated is a foolhardy endeavour that is proportionally ineffective to the trade's profitability. Best on hands example is the arms industry in the USA. One of the go-to arguments in favour for present status quo is that the regulated trade helps keeping tabs on the weapons that are circulating. Yet the reality is that anyone who wants a gun can either get it far too easily from a shop, or if they want it off the radar the blackmarket is more than happy to provide and relatively easy to access.


Hard narcotics are criminalized for good reason, those being that the addiction makes a mess of people and the drugs themselves are extremely unhealthy and downright lethal, be that in the long run or by virtue of poor dosage. Having people fry their brains on drugs is bad irregardless of any questions of legality and as such any discussionregarding the latter is irrelevant.

What needs to happen is law enforcement getting the assholes who keep producing, smuggling and pushing that shit on the streets. And if the Filipinos think that a balls-to-the-wall approach is needed, then by all means let the new President try to get the streets clean by putting the fear machine to work. Draconic punishment alone won't change much, though it might scare a couple people on the fence enough to straight them out of it. And if that guy can actually back his words up with results and police, etc. crack down on dealers, etc. with success, then all the better!


In other news, Turkey is going down the drain FAST.

Technically any substance with a strong stimulant effect has potential medical uses and was in fact used until alternative means came about (which were researched precisely because of the unwanted sideeffects, administering morphine as a painkiller is one thing, getting a patient high and addicted is another and typically not encouraged by medical professionals).
However most stimulants have been gradually replaced or supplemented with other substances to remove or limit those side effects. As such the legal business in medical applications is already regulated as can be and by no means criminalized.

The problem is with such drugs getting on the streets as a means of "recreational" activity. Inhaling some cocaine at a club is most certainly not a pre-surgery anesthetic procedure unless the person in question fully intends to get docked in the schnotz in short order. And without professional medical expertise, these substances go from medically useful into haphazardly dangerous. And when the problem shifts from self-destructive lack of judgement and health awareness towards people getting baited and hooked into taking such substances as a means to profit from selling it, then it's no longer a health problem, it's a criminal problem as people will get hurt or worse in the process.

Deleted stupid analogy, I'm sleep deprived, forgive me moments of unclarity

Drug abuse is illegal, should be illegal and be dealt with all the intensity law enforcement needs to in order to have the problem cease to exist. If the Philippines think getting dictatorial is necessary, you know the drug problem is out of hands and tangible debates about a substance's potential medical applications has ceased to be constructive input to a problem whose nature is of a different kind.

Hey how did we get on the topic of drugs? I didn't notice the thread switch hehe?

The failed analogy was about parents policing their toddlers, not toddlers being toddlers.

I don't care what some random bob is injecting/snorting/whatever in his body. It's his and if he needs it, that's his prerogative, as is dying in a pool of their own vomit after ODing if that were the case. I never argued about any given individual's personal choice in the matter.
I argue about systemic proliferation of illegal drug trafficking, marketing and selling addictive and dangerous substances to people whose preferred target audience is decidedly not capable of making a rational decision regarding what they flush their system with.

A person getting morphine because he otherwise suffers crippling pain is different from a potentionally inebriated teenager getting a little slip of crack "to liven up the night, first one is a free taste" from the friendly neighbourhood pusher.

Honestly for painkillers we need to legalise the most potent drug ever.

It's called...

If possession and abuse wasn't a crime, it would probably make it easier for addicts to get treatment, or more safely manage their addiction.