Ok, see this is actually a fair talking point, although I don't think anyone has actually called out modern Russia for what it is (predominantly a capitalist society, though definitely still totalitarian, it doesn't fit inside the narrative its been type casted as).
But why wouldn't they also back Biden? I don't think biden has a distinctly anti-russia platform. What policies does biden actually have that are detrimental to russia? Backing either Biden or Trump serves their purposes equally if the purpose is to cause division in the states. Seems to me if that's their goal backing either works. (And lets not pretend that Obama was "tough on russia" there were plenty of articles that demonstrated that he was not as tough on russia as american's felt like he should've been. (Of course there is 50-70 years of programming to override in our fear/distrust of russia))
Let's not pretend like Biden is going to magically solve division in the nation. His support falls largely along party lines. He is not well liked by republicans, and theres the ever growing rift between the Liberals and the actual Progressive Left in the nation. If anything Supporting biden is the russian move if they want to cause division, Why? Biden victory excites the Liberals, but makes the left angry and resentful towards the dems, the Rpublicans will start another 4 years of embroiled lock down until the dems lose the house or they lose the senate mean while populists who have been consuming conspiracy theories for years now about the deep state, illuminati, and whatever other mythical organization will simply protest and disagree with everything that the dems say for sake fo them being dems and clearly in cahoots with bigfoot, then there's the actual dems who, like you, will selfrighteously proclaim victory and go about arrogantly pissing off both the left extreme and the right.
If trump wins? The exact same scenario but flip the dems, with the republiicans, and the fictional orgs, with russia. Then turn the Left into arrogant smug folk who go around saying "I told you so" to the formerly smug dems who have now so thoroughly pissed us off, and the populist republicans will continue to try to systemically oppress folks while the House and the Senate remain deadlocked and the courts slowly shift to the right.
Like both out comes are the same.
To that end, what do they stand to gain at this point from another trump presidency?
Division is guaranteed regardless, The US has already fallen from international prominence. The price of Oil has tanked thoroughly, the US economy is now utterly befuckered (no matter how you cut it), we're dying and that's compounded by a coming vaccine scarcity issue in addition to the already successful russian backed anti vaxer campaigns, US interests are now producing more propaganda than the Russian cyber offense needs too, our Cyber Security and Election Secuirity are still minimum at best. They've already largely achieved what we would largely suspect their goals to be. Unless you're insisting Putin is a bigger child than trump? What does Russia need from US interference at this point?
Basically where is the motive? The objective? And Why would they dedicate resources to it?
Like I'm just asking this from a purely matter of fact point of view? We are never going to war with russia (it would very much kill everyone) And as far as they're concerned we're not really a global obstacle to them from the looks of things (Ukrain, Georgia, who knows what else beyond some random assassinations, and global election meddling.) So why US specifically? Cause I really do not see an actual motive, reason, or goal they have left to accomplish by interferring further. The set backs trump has already caused have set us back what is probably literally decades internationally. 4 years of the worst diplomat in our history is not going to be fixed by 4 years of a senile old man who bites fingers, molests women, and similarly attacks folks for asking simple questions (physically).
Lets be frank, neither Trump nor Biden is a stable Genius and while Biden might maintain a status quo, status quo right now is not leading the world and not improving domestic affairs or infrastructure. While Trump will likely cause more loss of stature and a fair loss of clout internationally there's not much lower we can get until we do something that sets us on a path off of the security council which isn't going to happen until we do the genocide literally and undeniably (Not counting the one that's been going on for 3 years now and the world has done nothing about.)
So your thoughts if you can encode this in a way that is not offensive, condescending, and outright rude.
I mean you tend to ignore the fair talking points here a ton but sure let's go over this.
First off, I have called Russia (and China) out for being capitalist dystopian dictatorship with my talks with Sim here. I pointed out that was the end result of strongman populist communist nations that act on mass murder of their own people. Since they are things the far-left rather defend than good examples of communism from much smaller nations that are not like the above two imperialist nations. So it's been noted and HYR tends to pretend to be confused about well, everything to make his points.
Russia would never want to back Biden, they rather back Trump and Sanders by extension for two simple reasons.
1) Biden comes from the Obama admin, the same admin that was pushing for sanctions that would resulted in Putin being hung by his own people had they passed. The articles you bring up probably are forgetting these never passed due to Republicans in congress. So for all that anyone thinks that Obama was not tough enough, he was gonna fuck Putin over huge. Putin has his knives out for anyone from that admin that might do harm to him and his empire. So it's all empires at war here, never help your enemy.
2) Backing Trump and Sanders causes a lot more chaos in this country, I have been over that Bernie would have been able to do nothing in this nation and costed us down ballot seats before and for Trump, well I hope I don't have to go over him do I? The main point is chaos though and they figured Bernie would lose to Trump anyway so back those two, make the Democrats weak and ensure the one president who can't ever say a bad thing about them to keep his seat. Part of the whole wall that isVoteBlueNoMatterWho (or as I like to call it now, Vote Biden) that we started 4 years ago was to assume the Dem nom would also get nonstop unfounded attacks from Russian-Bots and Russian backed media, just like what happened to Hillary.
And yes, we can assume Biden is going to go back on them for revenge as much as Hillary would have, Russia has reasons to be scared here. For one thing he is going to put actual power back into the State Department and National Security Council which already brings us back into the fight with Russia. So from all that Biden has said too, we are going back to keeping them as our enemy.
Russian media was also caught off-guard by Biden's turn around during the primary and then all of sudden when he secured the nom, bots are over sites again right on Russian time frames pushing the same dumb stories again and again. This is what happened 4 years ago. Just not on the same scale as what Hillary got since they have weaker attacks on Biden this time/people just don't hate him the way they did Hillary.
And yeah, Biden won't be able to fix all the issues here, no way. Trumpers are huge on Trump and crazy shit and that's not changing. The Very Online Left is huge on Bernie but won't even vote for him so again, nothing is going to win them over if Bernie can't. However Biden has had the Lincoln Project, Joe Walsh and John McCain's daughter endorse him. Jeff Flake today has also said he will be voting for Biden. Not much but it's some signs of notable Republicans that won't turn over a lot of voters but maybe they ensure just enough don't vote for Trump at the very least in key states. It's at least some cross the isle support no one but Biden could have gotten giving his character and his close relationships he has built over the years. As for the progressives? All the progressives in the party have endorsed Biden and Bernie's campaign staff leaders just today made a Super Pac for progressives to support Biden. This is all just to say, there is some unity in the party right now to either view Biden as a way to beat Trump or to push progressives views. Hell there was an articles today that Biden's camp is trying to decide between a VP for the Dem base IE a black woman or a progressive. So there is reason for the progressive wing to want to side with Biden and with about what, 90% of Bernie's voters throwing their support behind Biden? Yeah he can't afford to let them down either so he'll do what he can for them to ensure that rift is only online.
It clearly is, because the left, all sides of it with weight here, want Trump gone and to make steps towards progress. No matter how small. Even Noam Chomsky gets this at the moment.
And a unified left is not something Russia wants either so why back the unity candidate who has a bone to pick with them? And the rest of your point here assumes I am the majority of the left or that the Very Online Left is the majority of the progressives. Again all I can tell you is a Biden victory is all the left should want. Though assuming the online left matters at all, progressives would maybe prefer a narrow win where they came in to save the day rather than a landslide, that way I won't be smug to them. I'll give my bows and thank them. I'll thank you and even HYR if you guys vote for Joe and are the reason for a narrow win. You get bragging rights and to hold him accountable all you want. Biden losing? Well I am still gonna be smug to you for why he lost and with a landslide win, no one ever really has to listen to you again because it proves there is no rift and you don't matter. So try not to assume here about what would happen without taken into account how the wins happen.
But yeah no getting through to Trumpers but a Trump defeat is going to hurt them as they will need to quickly figure out who the next one should be. Populists who are already unpopular is going to be hard to live up to I feel. A defeat to fascism is a good thing. And after Bush, there are no viable fundies or neocons anymore in the party that can win. Failures do change the party and speaking of, a Trump win ensures the Democratic party might have to give up on progressive politics more to win in the meantime.
The divide is going to be worse in that case in my book.
So that point along with having a friend in the white house that won't pass sanctions on them? Russia gains plenty from a Trump win. So yes I am saying Putin is a huge child but also fucking us over more and them doing better is the goal. It's always the goal. World power empires at war. It's really not hard to get. Russia itself is not doing great, they are going to try and change that. An unstable US is better for them. All the things you bring up can be fixed and we can have a Democratic majority in our government that barely has to do much to ensure Russia is fucked by just the sanctions.
So yes, we are totally in war with Russia. An information and economic war. It's also a bit cold too. A chilly war if you would, I think that's a cool and original name for it.
I'll end this post by saying Biden won't really maintain a status quo, he will go and turn around almost every Trump executive action and policy but that's itself a lot of progress. That's what, the first few days? Then we rebuild and strike back even more at Russia and lead again. He will also recognize the 1915 Armenian genocide. That's not status quo, that's the leadership we need right now. Only our enemies or folks acting in bad faith would view this as a bad thing or not good enough. We can't really afford to listen to them at this point. What we need to do is keep winning the white house, the house and the senate for the Democrats to make any progress.
To sum up, a Biden admin is going to do a full 180 on Russian relations, Russia rather that not happened for a lot of reasons and will do what they can to stop that.
Edit: Yang is a capitalist, he is never going to go over to the Very Online Left side.
